You recently led an EU Council simulation with around 30 international students of European studies – what impressions did you take away from it?
Leonie: The students took their roles very seriously and at the same time embraced the playful nature of the game. It was also clear that they enjoyed negotiating.
The informal discussions were very lively. Everyone was very committed to finding majorities, which was fun to watch.
Frank: I think the participants have done a good job of identifying why EU migration policy is so difficult: everyone knows that Schengen requires common solutions, yet many continue to play for time. Moreover, perceptions of migration as a phenomenon differ widely.
What skills are practiced in simulation games, and why are they important for future ‘policy officers in European and international organisations’ that CIFE trains?
Frank: Simulations provide personal experience of procedures, enable in-depth engagement with a topic, and foster skills development.
Leonie: These skills are diverse: speaking freely, processing information, negotiating, conflict management, compromise, and more. They are practiced naturally, almost incidentally. In addition, they are embedded in the experience of a specific role and accompanied by emotional engagement - making learning more concrete and ensuring that experiences last longer.
What role do the different cultural and personal characteristics of the participants play in the ‘negotiations’, and how do the participants deal with this?
Leonie: Generally speaking, extroverted personalities tend to find it easier to speak up in debates, while those who observe and listen carefully often excel at identifying potential alliances. By alternating group compositions and negotiation formats - informal and chaotic as well as formal and structured - we ensure that everyone can contribute. Working in teams of two also allows different personalities to complement each other. I did not observe any meaningful differences linked to cultural backgrounds.
Frank: I agree. The personalities we encountered were shaped far more by a shared mindset and similar experiences than by geographic origins. Diversity was evident in individual characteristics, not in group identities.
You work in the field of political education. In a time of growing populism and increasing international tensions, how do you think political education can help defend our democratic order and the legitimacy of the EU?
Frank: Democracy requires self-confidence, trust in institutions, and optimism. Such a basic attitude enables persistence, a willingness to compromise, and resilience in times of crisis. It is shaped by many factors - from early childhood experiences and achievements in the arts or sports to political education, and by positive experiences with diversity: not merely managing it, but benefiting from it.
Leonie: In my view, political education continues to play a crucial role. Our programmes aim not only to convey knowledge and skills, but also to foster a democratic attitude - showing that different perspectives exist, make sense, and are legitimate, while also highlighting the importance of compromise. Ultimately, democracy only works when many people actively participate. At its best, political education demonstrates that even difficult situations can be addressed and turned into opportunities for personal and social growth.
In many political debates in Europe, one gets the impression that young people feel less and less heard. What issues are important to the young people you work with in your projects?
Leonie: I find it difficult to make a general statement, as we work with very different groups - from 13-year-olds in rural regions of Brandenburg who have had little contact with politics so far, to international European Studies students. Most are acutely aware of current challenges, and the international economic, environmental, and security situation is a source of concern for many. Ultimately, what they all share is the desire to be heard and taken seriously.
Frank: Ironically, this sense of not being heard is not limited to young people. Many across society experience it, which I see as a key driver of the backlash against perceived “elites” in media, science, and politics. What we are witnessing may therefore be a broader crisis of trust in our political systems - one that young people are very much part of, rather than an exception to.
The interview with Frank Burgdörfer and Leonie Augustin was realised on 17 December 2025.